Good morning.

We are on the record at 9:19 a.m.

Pacific Time on November 30th, 2022 to begin the deposition of Sheriff Alejandro Villanueva in the matter of Walden versus County of Los Angeles.

This case is venued in Superior Court of the State of California, County of Los Angeles Central District.

The case number is 20STCV24195.

This deposition is taking place via Steno Steno connect platform.

The legal videographer is myself Mason Dyer here on behalf of Steno and the court reporter is Nicole Galvin.

Also here on behalf of Steno with counsel.

Please identify yourselves and state whom you represent.

Sure.

Alan Romero.

On behalf of the deponent Larry Walden, who is present in my office but will not be speaking.

Good morning.

Sherry Gregorio, on behalf of County of Los Angeles defendant.

Good morning, Linda Savitt on behalf of Sheriff Villanueva.

And then I do have Eric Hahn and Angela Hsieh or Jackie Hsieh who are on, um, on the call as well.

And on behalf of the county, we do have as Deputy Esmeralda Lopez who will be sitting in, um, observing.

Thank you so much.

Council with the reporter.

Police were in the witness.

Raise your right hand, please.

Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury.

The testimony you're about to give will be the truth and nothing but the truth.

Yes.

Thank you.

All right, go ahead, Mr.

Romero.

Okay.

Good morning, Sheriff Villanueva.

Are you aware that you're here pursuant to a court order?

Yes.

Okay, I'm going to go ahead and introduce exhibit one, which is a copy of the court order.

Uh, it basically says that you're here for a deposition limited to three hours.

Uh, can you see the the exhibit one now.

Yes.

Okay.

Do you need me to review it, or are you willing to take my representation that it says you're being deposed for three hours today?

That's fine.

Okay.

I'll stop presenting.

Okay.

Sheriff, what is line time in terms of a promotion to the captain level within the LA County Sheriff's Department.

Line time is a cumulative time in your career spent on the line at all ranks.

And just so we have a clear record, when you say time spent on the line, what is the line to a civilian looking at sheriff's department policies and practices.

For a patrol assignment?

That would be time on the line in a radio car, as a field, as a patrol deputy, a training officer, as a sergeant, for example, a field sergeant watch commander.

This line lifetime.

Is there a specific portion of the Manual of Policies and Procedures which is official department policy, which describes or elucidates what line time is for purposes of promotion?

No.

Are you aware whether or not Lieutenant Walden had the necessary line time to potentially promote to the captain of Compton Station?

Uh, at what point in time are you referring to?

Um, at the time when he was acting lieutenant of Compton Station.

Excuse me.

Acting captain.

So just to help the sheriff, can you give him some dates?

Kind of vague.

I'd say, uh, give me one second.

Let me check my notes.

As of October 2019.

I believe he did not have the necessary time at that time.

Was it.

Possible to promote from lieutenant to captain at that time without having the necessary line time.

In Vegas to possible.

Join?

For patrol station assignments as unit commander.

You needed the necessary lag time.

So was there a different criteria for patrol station captain than for other captain positions at that time?

Yes.

What was the difference in those two criteria and who is that?

That's it.

Who?

What were the difference between those two criteria?

Well, simply it was depending on what the position was.

If someone was going to be assigned to a custody assignment, for example, as a unit commander, their expectation was you had to have at least two assignments at different ranks in custody.

If you wanted to be assigned to a Detective Division position as a as a unit commander and a detective assignment is expectation.

You have a history of detective assignment.

And when you say expectation, was this a written policy?

This is a this is the practice that we developed and we enforced.

When you say we who do you mean we?

Myself and the top five.

And who are the top five during the relevant period of time we're discussing now?

Well, people came and went in the top five during the time that you're discussing.

Let's say, October 2019, to the best of your recollection.

The top five in October would have been, uh, where Carmody, the undersheriff, I think Bob Olmstead would have still been in charge of custody.

Uh, I'm not sure about special operations.

If it was Mario Gutierrez or had changed to Robin Lehman.

Was the line time requirement ever committed to paper?

Was it ever put down on a document?

Uh, that I'm not sure of.

Did you ever instruct your subordinates to put the line time requirement for patrol station captain in a official sheriff's department document?

I believe we did have a we did have a meet and confer, I believe with Copa, which represents the rank of a lieutenant and captain.

And how did that mean?

Confer.

Take place via email.

Via letter in person.

Telephonically.

I didn't happen to my level so I could not answer that.

Are you familiar with a, uh, Captain Rob Jones.

Yes.

You know when he was promoted to captain within the sheriff's department?

I would say probably within the last two years.

I couldn't be specific.

Do you know if Rob Jones had the line time to be promoted to the captain level?

I'm a little vague.

Wait, Linda, we couldn't hear your objection if that was one.

If I'm.

If I'm not mistaken, uh, Captain Jones was not promoted to stop a promotion to a patrol assignment.

Is there any document that you're aware of which memorialized the fact that there were different line time requirements for captain promotions, either to a patrol station or to a non-patrol command.

Objective is vague as to time.

At any time within the last four years.

When we were trying to make an effort to memorialize all of our patrol practices and formalize them into written policy, but that it was a very arduous long term project that we did not get to conclude.

Do you remember the period of time that Lieutenant Walden was acting captain of Compton Station?

I believe it was in 2019.

Do you know why Lieutenant Walden was not permitted to interview for the captain position at Compton Station?

I'm going to object.

The question is phrased as argumentative.

You may answer.

If it was in 2019 he did not have the requisite time, uh, on the line to to be interviewed and then the, uh, the people who are selected to be interviewed, those are the top ten typically of everyone who applies.

So to make the top ten you have to have requisite time.

You have to be be basically the top ten.

And uh, the average age of or time on the department of people who are successful are typically 22 to 25 years on was the average age of uh or time in on the department of the people that were uh, who were um, uh, interviewing for the job and applying that we take every application and we measured everybody in the top ten are the ones who were selected to be interviewed in the top ten of the ones that typically have the most time on the line.

They have the requisite education.

And how are those top ten selections?

Well, we we we opened up the we sent out a notification, I believe, that went out to all lieutenants about opening at a certain station if you're interested to apply.

And then we got applications resumes from from all the candidates.

Who are the decision makers who selected the top ten candidates for interview at Compton Station in October 2019?

That would be the top five.

Did you participate in these discussions?

Yes.

Did you ever have any discussions with Chief Eli Vera pertaining to Larry Wallace?

Promotability to the captain position at Compton Station.

Not that I can remember.

Did you have any such conversations with Commander Thatcher?

Not that I can remember.

Do you recall anyone else other than those in your top five with whom you had a discussion about Lieutenant Larry Waldie's Promotability to permanent captain of the Compton station in 2019?

No.

Who is the final decision maker for promotions to the captain level within the Sheriff's department as of today.

As of today, that is me.

To what extent does the undersheriff play a role in selection of individuals to promote to the captain level as of today?

Well, it depends on exactly which captain position you're referring to.

If it's a patrol station captains, that's a very defined path.

And, uh, the undersheriff plays a role in selecting the top ten and then also plays a role in interviewing from the top ten to get to the finalists who are going to be interviewed by the community panel.

And then once the community panel makes their, uh, their choice and I, I give my blessing on the final choice and we always go with whatever the community, uh, because the community panel interviews all of the finalists, which are typically the top five and we honor their their selection.

That's been the practice for the last four years.

So I think the answer is obvious.

Just so we have a clear record, it's that's the same process that took place in October 2019 with respect to Lieutenant Waldie.

Yes.

Okay.

To what extent did strike that?

Does Undersheriff Murakami provide either written or verbal feedback to you with respect to the qualifications of captain candidates.

I'm going to question.

I'm going to just object to the questions phrased in the present tense.

So it's a little vague.

So yeah, as of today what.

Contemporary contemporaneously as these decision makings occur, as we sit down and assess a group of candidates for each captain's spot, we obviously we have feedback from the top five because they're under their command, the various applicants.

And that's how we put together our decision on who the top ten are.

And then we move forward with the top ten.

Is that the same process took place in October 2019 with respect to the plaintiff?

Yes.

To what extent are civil service rules taken into account?

Uh, and we'll talk about strike that we're going to be talking about October 2019 specifically.

So during that period of time.

To what extent do civil service roles play into the selection of an individual for promotion to captain at a patrol station such as Compton?

Does this phrased overbroad?

Go ahead.

The only civil service rule that plays into account is that you have to be in band one and reachable to be appointed to the rank of captain from the from the certified list of lieutenants.

And that is literally the only civil service rule that follows.

The rest is is strictly 100% a management prerogative.

So when I took Undersheriff Murakami's deposition a few months ago, Undersheriff Murakami told me that civil service rules do not apply to promotions such as the one that Lieutenant Walden was seeking.

What is your position with respect to that question?

He's absolutely correct.

So just to clarify, is it your position that civil service rules which apply to merit based promotions do not apply to captains within the Sheriff's Department?

Objection.

Misstates his testimony.

Argumentative.

Join.

Can we have the court reporter read it back, please?

Um.

Okay, just to clarify, is it your position that civil service rules which apply to merit merit based promotions do not?

Um.

I'm sorry.

Do not apply to captains within the sheriff's department.

Same objections.

I'll also object.

It's vague as to which rules you're talking about.

Sheriff Villanueva, you can answer the question.

I think the way you phrase it, you're trying to imply that somehow there's a meritocracy with civil service rules.

And if there was no rules apply when there's a lack of meritocracy in the selection.

But your assumption is false.

We have to follow the civil service rules.

You have to be in band one to apply to become captain.

And we can't pull someone out of band two and jump over everybody in band one.

That is a civil service rule, but 99% of all the applicants are in band one.

So from this point forward then it becomes a management's prerogative and how we decide who is the one that is most qualified to assume the position of captain.

And that's why we establish this protocol.

Actually, my my assumption with all due respect is the opposite is that civil service rules for Los Angeles County, as well as the county charter section 30 and the series 25 of the Civil Service rules apply to captain positions, and therefore these are their merit based requirements for promotions to captain.

So just so we're clear, you're saying that you have total discretion and that the merit based requirements of civil service rule 25 and County Charter 30 do not apply to your decision and discretion to promote individuals to captain within your department as of October 2019.

Objection.

Argumentative.

Asked and answered.

I will join and I would say mischaracterizes evidence is.

Please respond if you understand the question.

Well, if I understand the question, I don't think your client has a prayer because if you look at the qualifications that we can measure on any possible measure, the one that was selected was LaTonya Latonia Clark who was a was a we had a Laura I believe we had a very highly competitive candidate pool and they were all 20 plus year veterans of the sheriff's department with multiple assignments with the requisite time on the line at different ranks.

And those are the people that became the semifinalists, became the finalists and then the successor.

And your client just did not rate in comparison to all those people.

I'll try and be more targeted in my question.

Did Civil Service Rule 25 apply to Larry Wald's abortive promotion to the captain position in October 2019?

Objection calls for a legal conclusion.

Calls for speculation since he does not have the rule in front of him.

Diane.

Do you know?

Um.

You said a word.

It was garbled, though, in the transmission right after Larry Waldie, there was a word that I didn't quite hear.

Uh.

Madam Court reporter, I apologize.

Could you read that one back if you got it?

Okay, good.

Civil service rule 25 apply to Larry Wald's aborted promotion to the captain position in October of 2019.

Awarded.

You kind of lost me on awarded.

He was not awarded anything.

Uh abortive meaning uh did not become consummated.

Well, I believe there was 39 candidates who applied and 38 of them were not consummated.

The reward only one person was awarded.

Right.

So the question is did the civil Service Merit based promotion rules apply to Larry Walden.

At that time.

All the Civil Service rules in effect apply to our operation.

Our operation conforms to all the Civil Service rules, including 25.

Did apply?

Yes.

Are you required to accept the recommendations of your undersheriff for promotions to the captain level?

I have the final authority.

Have there been circumstances over the last four years where you disagreed with your undersheriff with respect to the promotability of an individual to captain.

You have to be more specific.

That's a that's a very large, open ended question.

Do you recall as you sit here today, any instance in the last four years when you and your undersheriff disagreed with respect to the promotability of any lieutenant to the captain level.

Mhm.

Not really.

We were pretty much in, uh, in agreement.

How many discussions did you have with Undersheriff Murakami about Lieutenant Wald's abortive promotion to that captain position?

I only wait, wait, stop.

Linda is on mute, so she's making an objection.

I object to the question is argumentative.

As to the word abortive.

I will join.

And it calls for speculation and lacks foundation as phrased.

You can respond.

I if I recall, we had one, uh, one discussion about about, uh, the applicant, Wally, when we were deciding who the top ten were to move forward for interviews and the concern that arose, I think I can't remember how, but he expressed some concern or some fear about deputies that were working under his command and which was very alarming as a as a prospective unit commander to be in fear of your subordinates and that, uh, that was uh, that was something of note.

I had never heard that before from any any lieutenant on the department.

And why did that cause you concern?

Well, because when you're in charge, you're in charge.

Your subordinates are not in charge.

You know, that would be tantamount to me saying I'm afraid of my assistant sheriffs or the undersheriff, but I can't lead them if I'm afraid of them.

And, uh, that, uh, that was a concern.

So when you say that Lieutenant Waldie was in charge of Compton Station during that period of 2019.

Does that mean he had absolute control over transfers in and out of that station?

The transfers in and out of the station.

The transfers are governed by our policies and procedures when it comes to line personnel.

There is a very strict protocol for that.

Are you aware that Deputy Jaime Juarez was transferred back to Compton Station over the protests of then acting Captain Larry Waldie?

Objection.

Foundation calls for speculation.

Can you can you repeat that question?

I think that might be touching on protected information, so maybe not.

But can you repeat that question either the reporter or mayor?

Madam reporter.

Okay.

I might be bad on the name, but, um, are you aware that Deputy Hyman was transferred back to Compton Station over the protest of then acting captain, uh, Larry Waldie?

Right.

Go ahead.

I run an organization with 17,000 employees.

I don't I'm not in a position to be concerned about the transfer.

One deputy for one point.

Point A to point B?

So is it true that as acting captain of Compton Station, uh, Lieutenant Waldie did not have absolute control over who was transferred to his station?

Well, he's part of the decision making process.

There's a commander, there's a chief of Central Patrol Division, and they, uh, they have to come together in agreement on these things.

Have you ever been a captain of a patrol station?

No.

Now, earlier when you said that you had concerns about Larry Waldie's strike that, can you describe specifically what concerns you had about Larry Waldie when he indicated that he had fear of subordinates?

What specifically what concerns did you have?

They just had time in.

2019.

To the 2019.

That's that's about as much information as I have that he was afraid of some of his subordinates, and it did not speak very well of his leadership skills.

And to communicate that information to you.

That would be Undersheriff Murakami.

What did Undersheriff Murakami tell you specifically at that time about Lieutenant Waldy and his ability to manage that station.

Uh, what I told you is the best that I can remember.

I'm not going to be able to recite something three years ago word by word.

And I'm not asking you to, but to the best of your recollection, we're we're under oath here, and we we're conducting discovery.

So what is your best recollection of what was disclosed to you at that time by Undersheriff Murcott?

Exactly what I told you that he was in fear of some of his subordinates.

And, uh, that did not bode very well for him.

Okay.

Are you aware if the subordinates strike that?

Are you aware of a deputy subgroup at Compton Station that has a common tattoo?

Yes.

How many such groups were there at Compton Station in 2019?

To the best of your knowledge.

Please define subgroups.

Vague and ambiguous.

Mm.

Were you aware of any groups of individuals at Compton Station in 2019 involving deputies with common tattoos with identical tattoos?

Uh, vaguely.

Yes.

How many such groups were you aware of in 2019?

I think I only heard of 111 such tattoo.

Can you describe to me what that tattoo looked like?

I think it was a skeleton with a Nazi helmet or something like that.

Did you direct that an Internal Affairs investigation take place into determining who were members of that group.

That were my subordinates took it upon themselves to initiate that investigation.

Were you kept apprised of the status of the investigation while it was ongoing?

Yes.

To time.

At any time did you direct the conduct of that investigation?

No.

I don't directly conduct any investigation and make it thorough.

If we could hold for one second.

Madam court reporter, are you getting that feedback?

Are you okay?

Can you hear everything?

I am, but I don't think it's it's not interrupting what I'm hearing, but okay.

I think it's impossible.

If it does, let me know.

But I'll do my best to go slow.

Okay.

Thank you.

What was Chief Matthew Berson's role in the investigation of this Tattooed deputy group with the Nazi helmets.

I'm going to object now that now you're asking about the specific investigation and who played what role.

I'm going to object that this is now you're encroaching on protected rights.

You're violating the penal code 832.5 through 830 2.7.

Uh, this is a matter that was before the court.

The court has not disclosed any IA files pertaining to executioners.

So to the extent that information is being elicited here, I'm objecting.

I can't instruct the witness not to answer.

Only his attorney will.

But I will put that on the record.

It's protected.

All right.

Sheriff, you're not being instructed not to answer to the extent you remember.

What was Matthew Burstyn's role in the investigation of this executioners group?

Okay, I'm going to object.

It lacks foundation as to the name and argumentative.

You can respond.

The, um, Matthew Burson announced that he was going to conduct an investigation of what he referred to as, uh, these deputy subgroups or cliques.

But that information, we were not aware of it until he revealed it during a press conference sometime around 2000.

I can't remember when 3020 or so.

When you say press conference, do you mean the Civilian Oversight Committee or was there a separate press conference?

No, it was a separate press conference.

Uh, do.

You recall who was present at that press conference giving information to the media?

Um, I don't recall, but I'm pretty sure you can Google it.

It's on YouTube.

Well, I.

Will I'm just curious if you can tell me if you recall who was there.

I don't remember.

Okay.

Is it true.

That you directed Chief Matthew Burson not to investigate this deputy subgroup at Compton Station.

No.

Not true.

What was Chief April Tardy's role in investigating this deputy subgroup at Compton Station?

She's a division chief.

She doesn't have a role in conducting an investigation.

That's up to IAB internal affairs.

And if there's a criminal element, I.

SIB.

And, uh, just to simplify your your your quest here, there was an incident involved of a fight or a conflict between two deputies at Compton station, which was what generated, uh, the this it was the tip off of the investigation that led to a widespread, uh, interviews with all of Compton personnel.

So did Chief Tardy conduct a supervisory inquiry as to this act of violence at the workplace of Compton in 2019?

No.

I believe it came out as a.

I can't remember how but somebody that there was a fight in the parking lot or something like that and it generated a criminal investigation that became the Internal Affairs investigation.

Do you know if during strike that.

So do you know if Chief Tardy conducted a supervisory inquiry into that that act of workplace violence?

I don't know if she did or one of her subordinates did or in fact, given the time frame, I don't know if she was she was the acting chief at the time or what role she played.

No.

If Chief Tardy engaged in a supervisory inquiry which determined that a subgroup of Tattooed Deputies existed at Compton Station.

That a statement or a question?

It's definitely a question.

So repeat the question again.

Uh, if the court reporter could read it back, please.

You know, if Chief Tardy engaged in a supervisory inquiry which determined that a subgroup of tattooed deputies existed at Compton station.

Objection.

Vegas to time.

I have not that I'm aware of.

I believe Matt Mathieu Berson was doing something like that, but I don't know if she was engaged in that.

When you learned that Lieutenant Waldy was allegedly fearful of subordinates at his station, did you take any affirmative steps to determine whether or not there was a legitimate threat to the authority figure at compensation?

19.

Objection lacks foundation.

Argumentative.

Is someone is in fear of their safety in any way, shape or form?

It is speculation that that person notified his employer.

Hey, this is my concern and this is what happened with this individual and that type of documentation I never saw.

I don't know if it occurred or not, but never rose to my attention.

Are you aware that Lieutenant Waldy did prepare those documents and submitted them to Commander Michael Thatcher contemporaneously.

Let me object to that Mischaracterizes the evidence in this case lacks foundation.

It also lacks foundation and calls for speculation by the sheriff.

So the question is, did you know that Lieutenant Waldie contemporaneously did make those reports to his commander, Michael Thatcher?

Samuel Jackson?

Do you want to refer to a particular email?

No, that's the question.

I'd like to identify those emails.

So I'm asking if you have specific knowledge of that did or didn't happen to assist me in finding discoverable evidence in this action?

No.

Definitely not at the time in 2019.

How about since then?

Have you learned that that took place?

I have seen an email to that effect.

Do you recall who sent and or received that email?

To the extent that question infringes on any attorney client privilege information from county attorneys, I'm going to put that on the record and ask that he be instructed not to answer.

And the same is true as to what I discussed with.

Him.

And any question I ask you today, just as a standing stipulation, nothing that you discuss with any attorney is something that's going to be a topic of my inquiry today.

So other than what you communicated to or from attorneys or your subordinates communicated to and from attorneys for the purpose of obtaining legal advice, did you see any emails related to Waldie's concerns about dangerous deputies at Compton Station?

Only what I've gotten from my attorneys.

Do you know why Chief Tardy transferred 13 deputies with the skeleton tattoo out of Compton Station.

Vegas at the time.

So the question is okay, do you remember 13 deputies being transferred relatively contemporaneously out of Compton Station in the last four years?

Well, you can say relatively contemporaneous in the last four years.

That's a mutually exclusive, relatively contemporaneous to what event?

So I.

Well, they are mutually exclusive.

And that's the question I'm asking for duration of time the last four years.

I'm asking for a cluster of 13 contemporaneous transfers, which occurred any time in the past four years.

Does that refresh your recollection?

It's overbroad and calls for speculation.

She did move out the 13 individuals.

What we would call a harmony move.

And to address issues of concern about individuals being too influential in the infestation and very similar to what, um, what's the guy's name?

The one from UCLA station in 2019 where they moved out 36 personnel over the course of roughly a year for similar reasons.

He used the term it didn't quite come through.

You said a something move.

What did you refer to it as a what move?

Harmony.

Move.

I'm sorry.

Could you spell that?

It's not coming through.

Connection.

Harmony h a r m o n y.

Okay.

How many mass harmony moves have you been involved in in the last four years?

Um.

Mass harmony moves, but this harmony moves.

Uh, two groups that I'm aware of.

East L.A.

and Compton.

When did the Compton Harmony move take place?

It was sometime after the East L.A.

one, I think 2020, 2020 20 to 2021.

Why did that Harmony move.

From.

Compton station?

Calls for speculation.

Well, I'm.

Relying on the judgment.

I think it lacks foundation.

But you may answer, Sheriff.

I'm relying on the judgment of my division chief for that.

I'm sorry you cut out for one second.

You relied on the judgment of whom?

Your division.

My division chiefs.

And which division chief specifically did you rely on to undertake the Harmony motion compensation?

That would be, uh, April Tardy.

What advice did April Tardy give you at that time with respect to the appropriateness of the Harmony move of 13 deputies from Compton Station?

I think she told us that that's what she was doing, and we already had established somewhat of a precedent with East LA that would preceded it.

And this was just an issue of breaking up subgroups and to minimize their potential of, uh.

Of, uh, you know, eroding the, uh, the work environment.

They have a corrosive presence in the work environment.

Isn't it exactly that erosion of the work environment that Lieutenant Waldie complained about the prior year?

Objection lacks foundation calls for speculation.

Same objections and mischaracterizes testimony and evidence in this case.

You can respond.

I'm not going to.

I'm going to follow the advice of my attorneys.

Rephrase your question.

Well, they they didn't instruct you not to answer.

So you're going to give me a response?

Okay.

Well.

Again, I'm following the advice of my, uh, my, uh, division chief.

They're in charge of their their divisions.

They have full authority to make moves that are considered a conducive work environment.

And, uh, if that was the assessment of, uh.

Of, uh, April Tardy in 2020 or 2021, I can't speak of what was in 2019 because it did not rise to my level of concern.

But I can speak of what April Tardy did in 20 2021.

Did you ever have a meeting with Chiefs where you used the term get that you wanted to get certain whistleblowers?

I'm sorry I didn't.

Hear the last part of your sentence.

Council.

I'm sorry ma'am.

I did not hear the last part of your sentence that got warbled.

Sure.

Let me ask it from from scratch.

So, Sheriff Villanueva, did you ever have a meeting with your chiefs in 2019 or 2020, in which you said you wanted to, quote, get whistleblowers within your department?

Making ambiguous.

That's a polling question to even ask.

We've strived to protect whistleblowers.

In fact, we even enacted a policy that bans retaliation against whistleblowers.

Was Lieutenant Waldie's concern about insubordination at Compton Station while he was acting captain a protected whistleblower activity pursuant to your policy?

Well.

The policy.

Excuse me.

Lacks foundation that the sheriff was even aware of it.

You may answer the question.

Well, the whistle blower policy came into effect in late 2020, early 2021, not 2019.

So that policy did not exist then.

But I never uttered the words get whistleblowers.

In fact, we strive to protect real whistleblowers who are actually blowing the whistle on violations of policy or violations of law.

Do you consider Lieutenant Waldie a real whistle blower?

Not at.

All.

Did you ever have any conversation with Chief Oliveira?

Let's pause for one second while the siren goes by.

Okay, I'll proceed now.

Did you ever have any conversation with Chief Eli Vera about Lieutenant Larry Waldie?

Not that I remember.

Did you ever.

Did you ever have any discussions with Chief Eli Vera about candidates for promotion to captain of Compton Station?

Not that I remember.

2019.

2019.

Ever.

I mean, including now.

Not that I remember.

Okay.

Is there currently a captain of Compton Station?

There's, Um, I believe we had a, uh, we had a new process, and we did get a new captain for coming.

It's not a trick question.

I'm just curious.

There's a new captain in Compton now, I believe.

I just can't remember the name off the top of my head, but I believe we we just went through the process just recently.

Do you know if Lieutenant Waldie applied for that position in 2022?

Um, I don't remember.

Okay.

Did you ever have a conversation with anyone about Lieutenant Waldie's performance specifically as the acting captain of Compton Station?

Uh, my conversation with Murakami.

Uh.

Besides your undersheriff, did you ever have any conversation with anyone else regarding the level of competence, uh, exhibited by Lieutenant Waldie as acting captain at Compton Station.

Well, that conversation occurred in the top five, so there were a few other people there.

But that's the same conversation.

Did anyone else?

I'll ask it again.

We got some feedback.

Did anyone ever express concerns to you about Lieutenant Waldie's perceived lack of competence as acting captain of Compton Station?

My undersheriff.

Anywhere else besides Undersheriff Murakami?

Not that I remember specifically.

What performance concerns did Undersheriff Murakami share with you with respect to Lieutenant Waldie?

I think you asked that question already.

It's the same one.

Same answer?

I don't recall any specific answer.

Let me ask more specifically.

Uh.

What specific aspects of Lieutenant Walden's supervisory command did Undersheriff Murakami find fault with?

All the same issue that he seemed to be intimidated by his subordinates.

Anything other than.

That?

That's all I recall.

Do you recall reviewing a performance evaluation that Commander Michael Thatcher gave to Lieutenant Larry Walden, which was an outstanding evaluation with respect to his time as acting captain of compensation?

No, I don't review that.

Were you aware.

That Lieutenant Walden received an outstanding evaluation, uh, for his work as an acting captain at Compton Station?

No.

Would that have affected your decision to promote Lieutenant Waldie to permanent captain at Compton Station?

Had you known of that outstanding evaluation?

Not at all.

I'll join.

Calls for speculation.

Lacks foundation.

I'm sorry.

What was the response?

Apparently it didn't call for speculation, so I withdraw.

And he said not at all.

Yeah, not at all.

How do you reconcile the fact that you and your top five determined that Lieutenant Waldie was unqualified to be the acting captain of Compton Station when his immediate supervisor, Commander Michael Thatcher, gave him an outstanding evaluation for that same period of time.

That's very easy to reconcile.

This is something you should be aware of.

The department has long struggled with inflation of, uh, evaluation, uh, standards, just like colleges and universities struggle with, uh, the grade inflation, the department struggles with evaluating people and giving them a you know what is would be considered a competent at best performance.

They get either a very good or an outstanding in fact.

But if you look at this is been true my entire career, 36 years on the department and uh, it's no no different at the any rank deputy sergeant, lieutenant captain rank and they over inflation is, uh.

It's something that, uh, has been a challenge for me as sheriff trying to tell people, let's start evaluating people accurately instead of not giving being the deliverer of bad news.

And that is just one of it right there.

Prime example.

How do you know it's a prime example?

Well, someone who is if you look at what was going on at Compton Station in 2019 and then uh, His expression of being intimidated by his subordinates.

But if someone has immediate reiterated that as outstanding, it was signed off by the reviewer.

Well, they should have put in the rating exactly what their thoughts were and rate them accordingly.

But that is something the entire department, in fact the whole county of LA has the same situation.

So how are you so sure that your evaluation of Lieutenant Walden's supervisory skills was accurate, or I should say more accurate than that of his direct supervisor who had daily contact with him?

Okay.

So I'm going to I'm going to object that misstates his testimony.

He never said he looked at his supervisory skills.

He said he looked at his long experience.

So the question is argumentative.

You can answer, Sheriff.

Well, the point is, is, Mr.

Waldie and his or his.

If I measure his performance against any other similar situation.

Incumbent at the Lieutenant.

Lieutenant.

We're getting really, really, really, really.

Mr.

mayor, we'd like to go off the record.

Off the record for.

The record for.

You guys can sort that out.

We are.

Now.

I'm having trouble.

I'm having trouble too.

We are now off the record.

The time is 10:09 a.m.

Pacific time.

We are now back on the record.

The time is 10:18 a.m.

Pacific time.

So I'd like to go back a little bit to some testimony about Rob Jones.

Is it your testimony that Rob Jones lacked the necessary line time to be promoted to a station captain?

I don't have his information in front of me.

All I know that he did not he he did not test or was not considered for a station captain position.

He was, I think, a detective division assignment.

I believe it was OSS.

But just to to kind of elucidate that point.

So Rob Jones I would represent you had 18 months of line time.

So based on his 18 months of line time, is it correct that he would not have been qualified to interview for a station captain position?

And that's false.

Objection.

Vague as to line time and what position?

It's cumulative line time, not just at the rank of lieutenant.

It's also the rank of deputy and the rank of sergeant.

And I have to be fair to all 39 applicants, for example, like in the Compton selection process.

And uh, so that is cumulative time, not just at the rank of lieutenant.

I didn't differentiate it either way.

So assuming that Rob Jones had 18 months of cumulative line time, would that meant that he would not have been eligible to interview at Compton for that 2019 captain position?

Lacks foundation.

Incomplete hypothetical is phrased.

Then why'd you let him interview for the position?

Argumentative.

Calls for speculation lacks foundation.

Um, let me make it very simple for you.

The 18 months of line time.

I'd have to find out what was his time as a sergeant.

What?

His time as a deputy.

You add them all together.

It's a different story than what you're painting here.

How is.

That?

Well, it's real simple.

I know your client is a fixed on line time as a lieutenant.

But let's go to line time as a sergeant.

Let's go to line time as a deputy.

All of a sudden the picture is very, very different.

Mr.

Jones, I believe, has been a veteran of the department for probably over 25 years.

And that's a very different picture than from the your client at the time of 2019, whatever his time on the department was in his life time.

So are you aware that Rob Jones, who I also represent, signed a declaration in this case saying that he only had 18 months in total of cumulative line time?

Were you aware of that?

Mischaracterizes the evidence calls for speculation.

Lacks foundation foundation and also lacks foundation.

So the question is were you aware of that?

I would have to see it, but I, I doubt that it was accurate information.

So?

So also, was he aware of it when he signed a declaration?

The question is kind of an oxymoron, if you know what I mean.

You've never seen that declaration right in your whole life?

No.

So can you explain to me how Rob Jones, with all 18 months of cumulative line time which he has declared under penalty of perjury, was allowed to interview for the captain of Compton Station in 2019, but Larry Waldie was not.

Well, let's do this.

Let me pull his file right now and I'll tell you exactly what Rob Jones lang time is.

We don't have to speculate.

I can find the answer for you.

Well, we can do that at some break.

But as you sit here today, can you answer that question?

I don't I don't believe that's accurate whatsoever.

Okay.

So if that was accurate it would mean that there was a breakdown in your two year life policy, right?

Okay.

Incomplete.

Hypothetical.

Calls for speculation lacks foundation.

I will join incomplete hypothetical as phrased.

We have the reporter read that one back.

That was a good one.

Okay.

Yes.

Um, so if that was accurate, it would mean that there was a breakdown in your two year line time policy.

Right?

Incomplete hypothetical.

Just so we have a clear record, incomplete hypothetical is phrased.

And for the record, your your phrase two year line requirement is, uh, is a misnomer.

It's ten years cumulative time on the line.

And obviously it's not an exact science when we have to separate 39 people and break it down into ten individuals, the ten most qualified of the 39 and I will I'm fairly confident that everything we did is exactly towards that regard.

We have to have the time on.

We also have to have a candidate pool that's going to be acceptable to the city or the city of Compton to interview.

And I think we we achieved that.

We achieved the right, uh, a balance in terms of experience, in terms of education.

And that's what the city is looking for.

So just to.

Clarify, you just described your line time requirement as an inexact science, didn't.

You?

Argumentative, vague and ambiguous is the as phrased also vague?

No one ever said it was a science that lacked foundation.

So the question is you just testified.

You just used the words inexact science to describe your line time requirement.

Is that correct or did I mishear you?

It's a guideline we used and it's a pretty good guideline.

And it's been used in every single patrol station.

And the average amount of applicants per station has been roughly around 40.

It's been the standard for every single assignment.

It's a coveted process.

And the people that are selected to become a semifinalist are the top ten.

And I got to measure 39 against themselves the 39 people that applied.

Not some artificial straw man.

I'd move to strike all that as non-responsive.

Who created the evaluation process for captain positions at patrol stations during your tenure as sheriff?

That was my vision for the department.

I campaigned on that and making it a more inclusive policy.

I never was able to interview for a captain position on the department ever, even though I had all your outstanding evaluations.

In fact, I was lieutenant with 25 years on when I first became lieutenant.

And at the 30 year mark, I still would never, ever had a chance to interview for the rank of captain.

So my my job when I became sheriff was to make the the the whole process of selecting station captains an inclusive policy practice and is merit driven by experience on the line and by education.

And I we achieved that.

In fact, it's been a resounding success supported by all of the communities that our stations serve.

So who is involved in the creation of this promotional process to captain.

While I set the vision for the for the process and then I had my subordinate staff put it into into practice.

Did certain subordinates of yours have specific tasks with respect to implementing this vision that you had with respect to the promotional process for captains?

Well, they had to start communicating it obviously.

So they communicated.

We do we transmit when an opening is coming up for a station captain assignment and we gather all the information, we get the input from all the candidates that want to apply.

And that includes captains already who are incumbent in other positions.

They want to move transition to a station patrol assignment.

We've had a few of those who have become the captains and patrol.

They transitioned from being captains saying custody and other other assignments.

Was this promotional process ever put in writing?

That I'm not sure how much of it got into writing, but the practice was very well established.

It was repeated faithfully and assignment after assignment it became open.

Besides your conversations with Undersheriff Murakami about Lieutenant Waldie, did you undertake or take part in any other decision making process with respect to Waldie's, uh, let's say inability to interview for the Compton position.

Let me try again.

Let me try it one again.

That was a little I'm trying to follow my notes and think on the top of my head.

Sometimes they come out awkward.

So the question is, besides speaking to Murakami, were there any other.

Did you have any other involvement in the decision making process to not permit Larry Waldie to interview at Compton?

Well, there's we had 39 applicants.

We shrunk down to ten.

And that list of ten was interviewed by Murakami and, uh, I think, uh, two of the assistant sheriffs.

And from that became a pool of five.

And then the pool of five interviewed with the with the city leadership and the supervisors from the second district.

And the person who was selected became Latonia Clark.

And they announced what their recommendation was.

I endorsed it and then under my authority, she was promoted.

And I believe at the time that she, uh, she won the job on her own, right?

She had 27 years on the job.

She met all the criteria.

Born and raised in Compton and, uh, And was an outstanding uh selection and it and it, uh, testimony to the fact that it worked.

What worked?

Our process make it inclusive.

Make it, uh, merit based and competitive.

And, uh, it was every single one of these has been very competitive.

And even the people who don't succeed appreciate the fact that they're now interviewing for jobs that were always considered off limits, as in the past.

The past practice was if you are not in the car, so to speak, you didn't even exist.

Would you characterize Captain Latasha or.

Sorry?

Um, what was the the cop, the captain of Compton Station, uh, in 2019 to 2022 was.

Whom.

LaTonya Clark.

LaTonya Clark.

Would you characterize LaTonya Clarke's tenure as the captain of Compton Station as a success?

That's vague and ambiguous phrasing calls for speculation.

Well, if I start making a, um actually doesn't that also I'm not going to start discussing the performance of another person that's not subject to this lawsuit because then I'm going into power.

If you proceed with that, I would suggest that yes, we do not.

I mean, I think the answer to the question was yes or no if it's a success, but if you're going to be talking about her specific personal information and all of that, I will.

You know, I would advise your attorney that or advise that you not answer those questions.

It would be protected.

So yeah, it was a yes or no question, Sheriff.

It was LaTonya Clarke's tenure at Compton as captain.

A success yes or no.

Or I don't know.

You don't have to answer yes or no?

I would say yes.

Is it true that Clark had workplace violence occur under her tenure at Compton?

So I do object.

Um, and I would instruct the witness not to answer these questions.

This particular question that it is violating the penal code 828 32.5 to 830 2.8.

Uh, it is also violating the procedures that we have in this state under Evidence Code section 1043 1045.

Are you to.

Take your attorney's instruction not to answer?

Uh, yes.

In regarding pitches, yes.

So I'm going to ask the court to mark this as the first, uh, instruction not to answer.

Was there any workplace violence at Compton Station in the year 2019?

There was an incident that involved, uh, Compton station and two deputies, but I don't remember what year it occurred, if it was 2019 or 2020.

Do you recall if that was Captain Clark?

I would put I would the same objection, same instruction pitches.

I didn't even hear the question.

I didn't even hear the question.

It was so warbled.

Okay, I'll ask the question again and I'll give everyone an opportunity to object.

So we get a clear record.

The question is, isn't it true that 2020 fight at Compton Station between deputies happened under the command of Captain Clark and not Lieutenant Waldie?

I don't have the time frame when the incident happened.

And who was in charge of the station at the time?

The 13 deputy Harmony move that you described earlier.

Isn't it true that that happened under the captainship of Captain Clark?

I believe so.

Are there any harmony transfers?

When Lieutenant Waldie was the acting captain of compensation?

Not that I'm aware of.

Do you recall the.

Shooting or strike that?

Do you recall when the shooting of Andres Guardado took place?

I know sometime in 2020.

That was under the command of Captain Clark, wasn't it?

Captains don't command shootings.

They command stations.

Do you rephrase that?

I move to strike as nonresponsive.

So it's a yes or no question, Sheriff.

Whoever did that shooting took place under the command of Captain Clark.

Vague and ambiguous command.

The question is.

Ambiguous.

And argumentative.

Let me answer.

Let me answer your question in the right way.

Okay.

Now, the reservoir shooting occurred during the time that Captain Clark LaTanya Clark was the captain of Compton Station.

During the period of time that Captain Clark was the captain of Compton Station, was there also a kidnapping of a skateboarder?

Uh, where that case got settled out recently for $700,000.

Did that happen under Captain Clark's watch?

I believe so, yes.

Now, you've repeatedly discussed your top five.

Just so we have a clear record.

Is the top five yourself, your undersheriff and three assistant sheriffs?

Yes.

And at what point in the hierarchy do promotions, uh, come to that top five for decision making?

Um, that's, uh, you got to be more specific because there's different pathways for different ranks.

So I guess.

That's my question.

You know, me being a civilian and not knowing the intricacies of this department at what rank, you know, is it Lieutenant?

Is it captain?

Does that top five get involved in the decision making process for that promotion?

The top five will be the the reviewer of all the decision making of the department is from deputy to sergeant, sergeant, lieutenant, lieutenant, captain and captain and above.

And, uh, so they'll receive the input.

Division chiefs, for example, on sergeant Lieutenant, which are very large numbers of individuals.

They have a panel where they meet, uh, the Chiefs panel and they'll take from the, uh, the promulgated list of, say, for the sergeant's test or the lieutenant's test.

And from the promulgated list, they'll go in order of who's in band one, band two, band three and how many positions are available to promote to, and then they make their selections from their personnel and recommend them and they'll be reviewed by the top five.

And then the top five concurs.

And uh, then that list is promulgated and then a group of sergeants and lieutenants gets promoted.

And those are in groups.

They're not individual when it comes down to captain and above, then they become individual.

And then you know, the process for captain when it comes to commander in chief, then that all rests in the top five and myself.

Do you recall making public statements with respect to promotions that you wanted to promote?

Individuals who, quote, worked there and are a reflection of what the community wants?

Something that effect?

Yes.

Did you ever ask the community stakeholders in Compton if they wanted Larry Walden to be their permanent captain?

No.

Why not?

Because that's not that would bypass the inclusive process.

In fact, that would be probably illegal because now I'd be lobbying the stakeholders to bypass all the other 38 candidates and prop up one candidate.

That would be impermissible and that'd be dishonest.

So to what extent did the community stakeholders in Compton have input on Captain Clark's promotion to that captain position at Compton Station?

Well, they interviewed the top five and then made their recommendation from the top five.

And was Captain Clark the number one pick of the stakeholders for that position?

Yes.

Have you ever served as acting captain at any station?

No.

I'm sorry I did not hear the question.

Sure.

The question was I asked the deponent whether or not he had ever served as an acting captain at any station.

Thank you.

The answer was no.

Do you recall an email going out to Lieutenant Waldie saying that his application for the 2020 captain at Compton would be presented to community stakeholders?

No.

Okay.

I'm going to.

Show you an email.

Give me one second to get it on the screen.

I have another email from him from 19, but not that.

We can get to that.

But first we'll look at my.

See the exhibit two.

I'll describe it and then I'll publish it.

It appears to be an email from the Sheriff's department regarding the 2020 captain's promotional process.

Let me strike that.

Give me one second.

Thank you.

We'll come back to this one after the break and get my exhibits in order.

So.

And provide a list of permitted.

I'm getting real bad feedback.

I think it's from Miss.

Gregorio that.

I don't think it's from my.

Let the report am I are you getting anything now?

No.

I'll continue.

So at what point did you forward a list of the top five candidates to the Compton stakeholders?

And what part of the process did that take place?

Well, that doesn't happen for my office.

That happens when the undersheriff and the assistant sheriffs do the interviews of the top ten and they form the group of five, and that is communicated to the the stakeholders in the community.

Have you ever.

Promoted.

Well strike that.

Is there a Captain Satterfield that works in your office?

Yes.

Do you know if Captain Satterfield has a college degree?

Irrelevant.

Oh, how is that relevant to anything here?

Not.

Not going to lead to the discovery of admissible evidence.

It's invasive of his right of privacy.

Well, I.

State that having a college degree is not a recognized privacy right in this country.

So the you're not being instructed not to answer.

Sure.

If the question is does Captain Fairfield have a college degree?

He's a third.

Party.

He's a third party.

He's not a party to this lawsuit.

His background, training, education is private and there's no reason to get into it.

And I think he does have a privacy.

You're trying to make him into a party to this lawsuit.

So there hasn't been an instruction not to answer.

So I'd ask that you answer if you know whether or not Satterfield has a college degree.

He's one of the most educated people on the department.

He has a doctorate in education.

Okay.

Do you know how much line time Captain Satterfield had cumulative line time.

I would object.

Again, it's irrelevant.

It's not reasonably calculated to lead to the discovery of admissible evidence to the extent you're asking him to to divulge personal information of this third party.

I would instruct him not to answer this question.

I think it infringes on his proper rights.

It infringes on his rights.

It violates the penal code and you're violating the evidence code as previously stated.

So on those I would instruct the witness not to answer.

Okay.

And it's also argumentative.

Captain Satterfield is not in a line position.

Okay.

So I'm going to ask the court to strike that.

So, Sheriff, are you going to take your attorney's instruction not to answer that question?

Well, insofar that he is not a captain or a commander in a patrol line, a patrol assignment, yes, I will follow their advice.

Okay, so I'd ask the court reporter please mark that as instruction not to answer.

Number two.

Do you recall.

Responding to a 998 or officer involved shooting at Compton Station in July of 2019?

Yes.

Is that normal for you to respond to 9/98 throughout the department at different stations?

If the if our personnel are injured in a 998, I will respond to the station.

I'll respond to the hospital.

That case in particular was a unique I agree with 3 or 4 deputies that were assaulted with an AK 47 assault rifle.

An innocent bystander was shot and killed and it was just a appalling level of violence And of course I did my job and I showed up to make sure they were okay.

Did you ask Acting Captain Waldie to debrief you?

I don't recall exactly what I what I what I asked.

I know I got debriefed on roughly what happened and I spoke to the deputies involved.

Would it be.

Normal practice to be debriefed by the station captain when responding to a shooting like that?

They can ambiguous as to normal practice.

I get debriefed by a variety of people.

It just depends who has the information, who's available at the time, who's next to me.

And it might be the homicide lieutenant.

It might be the homicide captain that debriefs me.

It might get it from Sheriff's Information Bureau.

I might get it from my staff.

It might get it from the station personnel.

It's.

There's no hard and fast rule of who does it.

Did Commander Michael Thatcher ever communicate to you that Lieutenant Waldie had requested a personal meeting with you to discuss illegality by deputies at Compton Station during his tenure as acting captain?

No.

That would have stood out.

Did you ever have that communicated to you by Chief April Gordon?

No.

This probably a good time.

Let's take, um let's take ten minutes so I can get my documents in order.

We'll be done within the three hours.

Sound good?

Off the record.

Off the record.

Right.

Okay.

We are now off the record.

The time is 10:45 a.m.

Pacific time.

We are now back on the record.

The time is 10:58 a.m.

Pacific time.

All right.

I'm going to introduce an exhibit.

Give me one moment.

Exhibit two.

And for the record, um.

No, that's not it.

Okay.

There we go.

So for the record, I'm going to identify this as a slide from the 2019 Spring Management Conference.

Uh, Sheriff Villanueva, what is it?

Spring management conference in your department?

Well, typically that's, uh, seasonally.

And that's an opportunity for all the captains and above of the department, uh, to meet and discuss, uh, what we're doing, the vision, direction of the department and new policies and, uh, get input from all the command staff.

You know how things are going in their their neck of the woods.

Have you ever seen this slide marked captain before?

I'd represent to you it's, uh, Lieutenant Waldie's.

Uh, he saved it from the 2019 Spring Management conference.

I'll give you a moment to review it.

Then I'll ask you a couple questions about it.

Is it on the screen?

Um.

It's.

Oops.

I'm sorry.

Can you guys see it now?

I I thought it was being shown.

Can everybody see that?

Yes I can.

Is there a date on this document that maybe is cut off on the side?

Let me zoom.

Out.

I can.

When we take our next break, I can get more information as to when this was actually produced.

It's in my email, but this is a slide I want to discuss.

So I'll just read into the record the slide at the top.

It is marked captain.

That's a title of the slide.

There's a bullet point under that which states multiple choice exam.

Papa.

Papa.

Comma.

IAB procedures.

Comma.

EOP.

Comma.

Employee relations.

Comma.

Skelly.

And then next to that says 30%.

Next it says writing assessment.

Open parentheses outline history and how it pertains to the position.

Close parentheses.

30%.

Under that it has three sub bullet points.

First one says autobiographical.

Second one says highlighting.

Knowledge comma.

Skill.

Comma.

Abilities.

Open parentheses.

Leadership.

Comma.

Problem solving.

Comma.

Organization.

Closed parentheses.

Next sub bullet point is outcomes.

Open parentheses.

What have you learned?

Question mark.

Close parentheses.

The next of the major four bullet points says appraisal of Promotability 30%.

Finally, the fourth bullet point says bachelor's degree comma four years patrol comma two year field forward slash watch sergeant comma two years patrol watch commander forward slash sal comma two years minus three experience in custody.

Next to that in parenthesis is 10%.

Next to that open paren rater of record close paren.

So, Sheriff, have you seen this document before?

I can't say I have.

Do you know if this was one of the documents that was prepared in Effectuating your vision for reforming the promotion process in the sheriff's department?

Well, what it looks like is a proposed, uh, uh, process to, uh, promote to the rank of captain.

Did you say spring of 2019?

Yes.

So you're just taking office?

Okay.

You do realize that this might be a draft of something?

Um.

I can assure you that this was the final version of what was shown at the 2019 Spring Management Conference and distributed to deputies.

So, in other words, distributed deputies.

I'm sorry.

Distributed to all personnel who attended the conference.

All right.

I mean, if you haven't seen it, there's no point asking more questions.

So the question is you've never seen this before.

Don't recall it.

I know some of the issues on there.

I've.

I'm familiar with.

Okay.

Is there anything here on this slide that's inaccurate?

Well it never came to be.

The whole thing is inaccurate.

And how did it never come to be?

Because we never were able to develop a captain's multiple choice exam.

You know, doing a written exam for captains has never occurred in the history of the department, much less a writing assessment.

The only thing we have to date going back decades is appraisal promotability.

However, at the bottom one about the rate of record the four year patrol two years field watch sergeant two years patrol watch commander serious area Lieutenant two years line supervisor in custody.

That is going towards the direction that we were we were pushing for.

So everything in that last bullet point is accurate with respect to captain requirements for promotion.

Well, the cumulative is what we're looking for the ten years.

But how about here?

It says two years patrol watch commander.

Is that a requirement?

Was that a requirement under your regime for promotion to captain?

We settled on ten years total because we realized people had different experiences at different ranks.

And when you try and impose a hard line rule of two years.

Patrol.

What about a guy who's sitting on 28, 29, 30 years on but has maybe one year of patrol but has, you know, 20 years as a sergeant and as a deputy?

That's where you have to use a little bit of common sense.

So is it your testimony today that there were subjective criteria which you took into account that are not listed on this sheet?

I don't say they're subjective.

They're pretty objective criteria.

We're just being uh.

We're looking at the whole picture.

Are you aware that Rob Jones did not have two years of patrol watch commander Time.

I would not know.

Okay.

Fair enough.

Were you aware that Lieutenant Walden would stop presenting?

Were you aware that Lieutenant Walden, uh, sought and obtained strike that.

Do you know that Lieutenant Walden, after Compton wanted to go over to the Fraud and Cybercrimes Bureau?

No.

Were you responsible for Lieutenant Walden being removed from the Fraud and Cybercrimes Bureau transfer list?

That is.

I have no knowledge of that at that time.

You gotta specify the time frame to ever.

Did you ever strike Lieutenant Walden's name from a list of transfers to the Fraud and Cybercrimes Bureau?

Ever?

No.

Are you aware of anyone who ever did?

I can testify to what some other person may did they don't have knowledge of.

But you don't know who that person was, right?

All I do know is that to go to a Detective division assignment as a lieutenant, there's an expectation.

You have a good history in detective and investigation work.

And is it your testimony that Lieutenant Waldie did not have that?

I have no idea.

Did he did he have or did not have that?

But if he did, do you have any objective basis that you're aware of now?

Why it would have been removed from that transfer list for fraud and cyber crimes?

As asked, I think it's an incomplete hypothetical as phrased.

I think it also lacks foundation and is argumentative.

You can respond.

Well, I'm unaware if he was on a list or not on a list or not.

But again, how many people apply for all these positions and what is their background and how many decades of experience they have in investigative assignments, a lifetime in patrol, whatever the case may be?

Uh, your client, unfortunately, is on the lower end of the scale in terms of experience comparison to the candidate pool that we have, which we have to wait for the entire department and not just your client.

Did you ever review an email from Larry Baldy, sent in December of 2019, complaining of retaliation within the department against him?

Mr.

Romero, I did not hear the question at the beginning.

I'm sorry.

Okay.

No problem.

Always please feel free to let me know if you don't hear it.

Happy to repeat the question is, are you aware of Lieutenant Waldie having sent an email to his supervisors complaining of workplace retaliation in December of 2019?

Okay, so the question is, is he aware today that this happened or was he aware in 2019 or 2020 that that happened ever?

Okay, so I think it's irrelevant if he's learned something from his attorneys.

Okay.

So again I that's a fair point.

So I'm not going to ask any questions.

It's safe to assume I'm not asking for any attorney client privilege information.

So other than attorney client privilege information, did you ever learn of an email by Lieutenant Waldie in December 2019 complaining about workplace retaliation?

Um, the answer to that is, uh, no.

Are you aware of any investigation being undertaken by the Sheriff's Department into retaliation alleged by Lieutenant Walden?

Unaware.

Are you familiar with who the 13 deputies were who were transferred in the Harmony transfer from Compton station?

No.

Okay.

Do you know if any of those deputies were sitting in the reserved section of your swearing in?

I wouldn't have the faintest idea.

I have the faintest idea.

And I guess I'm going to ask you if you had any if you know, if you've taken pictures with any of those 13 transfer deputies, would I?

Is it safe to assume that you take pictures with many, many deputies on a regular basis?

I take pictures with thousands of deputies.

Have you ever retaliated against Larry Wald as a result of his complaints about workplace retaliation?

No.

Have you ever reviewed the investigation report about the skeleton tattoo subgroup at Compton Station?

No.

Why not?

I'm aware of the the outcome of it.

It resulted in two people being terminated.

If I recall, it resulted in the transfer of the 13 personnel.

And, um, I don't get into the nitty gritty details.

You've gone Going on to media sources and stated that there are no gangs in the Sheriff's department.

Is that still your position today?

Yes it is.

Would it have.

Been helpful for you, as the sheriff of this department to review that report about the Compton subgroup to determine whether or not what they did amounted to gang activity?

Objection.

Calls for legal conclusion.

And it's argumentative as phrased.

You can when.

When the state legislature tried to redefine what gang is with a with assembly bill, was it a 958 which became penal code section 13 670.

That changes the equation because previous to that, what was a gang member was a defendant ID'd in the penal code I think was one 86.22 of the penal code, but they created a whole new category of gang member of law enforcement, gang member.

And that was done at the behest of the supervisor, Holly Mitchell, who wanted to insert the word gang during the legislative back and forth in Sacramento.

And they added the word gang into the equation.

It was subgroup and cliques before that.

That's why I sponsored the bill.

And so they redefined the whole concept of what a gang member is in the law enforcement context.

And they added a whole bunch of other language to it.

And that happened in sometime in 2020.

So exactly with that context in mind, could you repeat the question?

So the question is I'll try and make it more succinct.

Why didn't you read that report about a potential gang at Compton Station?

I thoroughly read the one from East LA that preceded it.

And I had no doubt that there was anything different.

I knew the outcome and I knew the total number of people that was interviewed.

That was like the entire station personnel were interviewed and there was no information to substantiate anything about being a gang member.

And it's the same thing happened in East LA.

There was serious misconduct that was addressed properly that resulted in the terminations and the suspensions like East LA.

But the whole thing about gang, you know, deputy gangs, that was a racist political ploy in a campaign and nothing to do with reality.

Was that why you didn't read the report?

I didn't say not to read the report.

You didn't read it though, right?

I got the summary of what the report represented and that was good enough for me.

Did you review Chief April Tardy's testimony that she gave on July 27th of this year.

I heard some of it.

Was there anything inaccurate that she said on the record?

Yes.

She went into a legal conclusion about deputy gangs that she didn't have the information or the or the knowledge to to offer that opinion.

Did she express those opinions in her report about the deputy subgroup of compensation?

So the question lacks foundation because he said he didn't read the report.

So it's argumentative as phrased calls for speculation by him.

I ask you to please read that one back.

Okay.

Did she express those opinions in her report about the deputy subgroup at Compton station.

The opinions she expressed verbally at the CAC meeting were not the same as your conclusions in that report.

As I understand it from what I was told by that report.

And how did they differ?

Well.

I did not hear of her describing deputies as being gang members in a written report that came out of the CAC testimony.

Do you know why Deputy Juarez was transferred out of Compton Station by Lieutenant Larry Waldie?

I have no idea.

No idea.

Do you know why deputy Juarez was later transferred back to Compton Station over the objections of Lieutenant Larry Waldie.

I still have no idea.

Has anyone ever discussed either those transfers with you?

No.

Is it unusual for a deputy to be transferred back to a station within a year of being punitively transferred out of that state or out of that state?

Objection.

Vague and ambiguous as to the word unusual.

Calls for speculation and lacks foundation.

Join.

Not knowing the reasons it was articulated to transfer them out.

I don't know if it's a temporary issue or a permanent issue and but that happened far below my level of, uh, involvement.

Do you know a Lieutenant Johnson who was formerly a acting captain with strike that?

Do you know a Captain Johnson at Marina del Rey station?

Yes.

Was he an acting captain at that station prior to his promotion to captain?

I believe he was.

Do you know a Captain Daniel Holguin?

Yes.

Do you know if he was when he was a lieutenant, he served as an acting captain at Lakewood prior to being promoted to captain.

Mhm.

Not that I'm aware of.

Do you know if, uh, Captain Holguin's predecessor, Lieutenant Springle s p r e n g e l was an acting captain prior to promoting to captain.

No.

I believe they were operations lieutenants.

All right.

I don't have too much more.

I'm going to throw up another exhibit real quick, and then we'll take a break for five, and then we'll try for another five, ten minutes of questions.

Give me one moment.

Let me get this exhibit ready.

Okay.

This would be exhibit three.

Okay.

And I'm going to present.

Can anybody see that.

Mhm.

I'm going to ask you just one question about one the second page of this.

So this is exhibit three.

It's a dissertation document.

Um September 2005.

Alexandra Villanueva about leadership diversity and law enforcement.

So we're going to skip a few pages into the preface.

So I want to read first of all, did you write this document?

Yes.

Okay.

Is that your name on the front page?

Yes.

Okay.

So second page I'm going to read the highlighted portion.

It says this is the introduction to the document.

It says in discussions with colleagues the research the researcher came to learn that their experiences were very similar in that law enforcement promotional processes appeared to be driven largely by subjective issues more related to political interests than actual merit, and thus far out of the reach of each candidate's ability to influence promotional decision making.

Do you recall writing this?

Um huh.

Do you still believe this holds true in your department today?

Uh, no.

Not at all.

How about your leadership style?

Does your leadership style comport with this identification of subjective issues in promotions?

My leadership style is I'm sorry.

Go ahead.

For someone I think was making an objection.

I just said it was vague and ambiguous.

I didn't understand the question.

But the sheriff understands that he can answer.

When I wrote this in 2004 2005, I was describing the status quo at the time when I became sheriff, I had a very good road map of how to prevent the status quo from being perpetuated.

Hence all the reforms which included selections to the rank of promotions to the rank of captain.

Is it true that your decision not to promote Larry Walden to the position of captain at Compton Station was driven by subjective and political interests, rather than his actual merit?

Uh, absolutely.

Awesome.

But it also lacks foundation.

There wasn't an affirmative decision to not promote them.

And so the question is argumentative.

Join.

And I think you gave your answer, but could you please repeat that?

Sure.

There is no decision not to promote your client.

There was a decision to put a process together and weigh 39 candidates.

And of the 39 became ten, the ten became five and then the five became one.

And then I followed the recommendations of the community panel and that person became was promoted.

Okay.

So um, we're going to take I need five minutes and then maybe I have five minutes or less.

So if we can go off the record.

We are now off the record.

The time is 11:22 a.m.

Pacific time.

We are now back on the record.

The time is 11:30 a.m.

Pacific time.

So earlier you said it would have been dishonest to permit community stakeholders to evaluate Lieutenant Wald's application for captain of Compton Station.

Correct.

Mhm.

Okay.

So I'm going to introduce one last exhibit.

It's going to be exhibit four.

I'll put it up in a moment.

I'll read I'll identify it for the record I'll mark it.

It's an email dated Wednesday November 30th, 2022 at 1046.

Excuse me.

No, that's my email.

Excuse me.

It was a.

Tuesday, September 10th, 2019, 9:40 a.m.

from the CEU promotional team to Larry Waldie.

I'm going to introduce and now publish.

And I'll read into the record.

Uh, can everyone see it?

Can you all.

See the top of it?

Okay.

Okay.

I will just, uh, for purposes of this discussion, I'll say the top has my email that was forwarded to me today.

So it was from Larry Waldie last address to Alan Romero at my email address.

We're going to scroll down the actual body of the email again.

September 10th, 2019 9:40 a.m..

The subject is confidential.

2019 Compton Station Captain selection process.

It's a two paragraph email.

It starts out, Dear Lieutenant Waldie.

Thank you for your participation in the 2019 Compton station captain selection process.

We are pleased to have 39 candidates take part in this new selection procedure.

The department's goal was to design a phased process that would allow more candidates the opportunity to actively compete for consideration in this extremely competitive environment.

The top five list executives as well as community stakeholders reviewed and discussed candidates qualifications.

Regrettably, we must inform you that you are not selected as a finalist for Compton Station.

We commend you for your initiative and ambition towards career advancement.

We encourage you to stay persistent in working towards your department goals.

Sincerely.

Captain John M McBride.

Personnel administration.

Bureau.

For an examination unit.

Now going back to the first page.

Sheriff, have you ever seen this email before?

No.

Okay.

Would you agree that this email indicates that Lieutenant Waldie's application should have been discussed with the Compton stakeholders?

Mischaracterizing the evidence?

No.

I can, you know.

Let me let me help you out here, Mr.

Romero.

Sure.

This is a brand new process.

As the the email says new selection procedure.

And when they wrote community stakeholders that actually it's ended at the top five.

The community stakeholders involvement is is in interviewing the top five.

So this was a little bit of a a misprint on this email.

I'm sorry.

It was what.

This was a misprint or a poorly worded letter because this community stakeholders review only.

Occurs.

When the interview the top five candidates, not the all 39.

So the term you used is misprint.

I'll take this.

Down.

You also said the same thing about the Captain Slide previously shown at the spring leadership event.

Is it possible that those documents are correct?

And in fact, your testimony today is incorrect?

Not at all.

Argumentative and mischaracterizing the evidence.

Objection.

It's argumentative.

And I think your statements also lack foundation.

Okay.

Do we have the corporate to read that one back because we all stepped on each other?

Okay.

The term you used is misprint.

You also said the same thing about the captain slide previously shown at the spring leadership event.

Is it possible that those documents are correct and in fact your testimony today is incorrect?

Well, if we generated if we generated a captain's examination, a written examination, that'd be news to me or news to anybody, including your client.

So obviously that one was incorrect.

Correct.

And if we're looking at this email you just showed me.

Yeah, I think they were just figuring out what to put down in writing, and they probably were thinking too far ahead of themselves.

Okay.

I'd move to strike as nonresponsive, and I have no further questions for the deponent.

Do we have any questions from other counsel?

Otherwise, we can talk about our stipulation.

Uh, we have no no questions for the staff.

Okay.

I have no questions for the sheriff.

The only stipulation, um, I would offer was that we agree that in the that in the event the original of this deposition is lost, misplaced, stolen or otherwise unavailable, that a certified copy may be used in its place at trial and that the court reporter be relieved of her obligation to maintain the original.

Otherwise it would go by code.

Is that acceptable to the attorneys present?

I'm not a party to this litigation, so he'll go by the code in terms of signing the deposition.

But I can't stipulate to what you can use or can't use at trial.

I don't have any stake in that.

That's the part that in my opinion.

Yeah.

With respect to what can be used at trial, I'm fine with that.

Okay.

Then I guess we can go off the record and discuss logistics.

Oh, before we go off to.

Yeah, we can go off the record.

Are you asking me?

Before I take this off the record, would any.

Oh, sorry.

I didn't mean to step on you, Mr.

Gregorio.

That's okay.

No, I asked.

I think there's.

I'm sorry.

I was asking if there was anything being, um, attached, but I only got up to exhibit four, right?

Mr.

Romero?

Just one.

Okay.

Just clarification.

Okay.

Can you get orders on the record?

Yes.

That's what I was just about to do.

Before I take us off the record, would anyone like to get their transcript or video orders in on the record?

Uh, I my usual since I noticed it.

I'll take the paper, the electronic copy, and then I like, copy the video.

Thank you sir.

I don't need a copy.

Yes I would like a copy condensed as well.

Word index exhibits and a copy of the video.

Thank you so much.

And with that, I can take us off the record.

This concludes volume one of the deposition of Sheriff Alejandro Villanueva in the matter of Walden versus County of Los Angeles.

We are now off the record.

The time is 11:38 a.m..